Real punk will get you in trouble for listening to it in a public place (i.e. work + antiflag = can only listen to the radio for the rest of the summer).

Avril : The new version of pop, take that as you will. And the whole Bowie thing is an absolute crime, for most people, but if you're in the industry (and are thus representing it) participating in a press conference for a sham of an award show and you don't know who David Bowie is ... you should be shot.

I still like some NFG and Sum41 songs ... but punk rock they are not.

Great Punk Songs: Nofx "The Decline"; weighing in at damm near 19 minutes long, reason enough to at least listen to it once.

The Exploited "Sex and Violence" ... its just that simple.

One thing that will make you respect the Ramones less : Try watching Rock and Roll High School sober.

Andrew, I just saw R&R High School over the weekend - sober - and I don't agree at all. I loved it, and though obviously stylized, whenever the Ramones played anything the energy was through the roof. Our 3 year-old got so charged up dancing around the room that when I tried to pick her up she kicked me in the jaw so hard it nearly came unhinged.

All that movie is about is the great manic energy of rock 'n' roll, which it conveys spectacularly well.

We haven't lost 'em all just yet. A kid I work with ran up to me the other day all excited that he was able to find, on vinyl, Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables by the Dead Kennedys.

My son rocks hard at 15, although he didn't know whaat to make of Napalm Death

My 4 week old ordered the Morbid Angel reissues on line last week. Now that's hardcore.

*The Theory... is 19 and rocks hard*

I'm all about the older music.

peace.

I do like some of the "harder" stuff that is played today, some of it is actually kick-ass...

One thing you will notice is that virtually none of the artist today can be considered proficient at playing their instruments...

GODS OF ROCK

Led Zepplin
Pink Floyd
Rush
Yes
Deep Purple
Jimi Hendrix
etc...

I could go on for hours...

The bands of today are nowhere near in talent or intensity of any of the GODS!

i disagree with that, somewhat. It's not that bands aren't talented, it's just that the talented bands aren't getting popular.

peace.

Welp, I'm enjoying a lot of the new pop-punk bands, but, then, I also liked a lot of power pop groups (20/20, Shoes, Rezillos et al) back in the day just as much as I loved the Ramones and Sex Pistols. It really does depend on when you came in on the music. Michele considers Metallica heavy: to me, it sounds as dull and removed from the source as a sixth generation Freddy Krueger flick.

I'm with Bill on the power pop/punk fixation, and I also have probs with Metallica, never could handle the vocals, like an injured seal.

Actually Bill, I only consider Metallica heavy in relation to what my kids are listening to. For me, heavy is Meshuggah or Skinlab, even Rammstein.

While I have no problem with what my kids listen to, the point of the lesson we gave them was to correctly define what they are listening to.

However, it pains me when a band like AFI is just getting noticed in the mainstream now, and only because bands like Good Charlotte paved the way. It should have been the other way around.

Michele, I know exactly what you mean. I'd never heard of AFI, and then my friend took me to one of their concerts a while ago...
There are a lot of awesome underground bands, and it's really a crime that so few of them get noticed.

I know your point is the ignorance and softness of the latest generation, but it's the same every time. Even the parents who grew up in the '50s thought the music their kids listened to wasn't as wild as Little Richard, Jerry Lee, Eddie Cochran, the first wave.

As kids get older they go back in time and check out the roots of their fave styles - all my sons high school friends are into Nirvana, Primus, RH Chili Peppers, ie a generation back. Have faith in the fruit of your loins.

R&R High School:

Eric, people dressed up like giant Rats that explode unless they have head-phones on ... just try and find a way in which that idea wasn't inspired by a combination of shrooms and acid.

The Ramones played while walking ... moving drums and everything.

Highly stylized it was, and more entertaining than many insipid "teen" movies ... but that moving was still pretty bad and F**ked up in its own right.

in my opinion, you should not be able to walk the streets unless you have listened to bill hicks and
to the entire catalog of albums by x.

My kids are a little too young for Bill Hicks, but we have the whole collection waiting for them when the time is right.

i am a diehard fan of the ramones, afi, anti-flag, and any random metal/punk/hardcore music i can find (well, thats in addition to the light fluffy electronic stuff and the dark twisted electronic stuff and all the other random shit), but i do like good charlotte and avril. i cant explain why...wait...yes i can.

i like good charlotte cause they are somewhat of a throwback (in their videos anyway) to the underground punk/newspaper/comic stuff from the early eighties. i enjoy avril cause i like the skater thing, and i just think shes kinda cute. she also reminds me of a friend of a friend...although said friend is even more of the high energy, wacky, playing with things in the mall sort.

my current focus is t.A.T.u. a little russian duo who hit america about a week ago...though i've listened to them for longer. theyre that same in your face, we will do what we like and fuck you if you dont like it sort as many of the early punk bands.

One thing you will notice is that virtually none of the artist today can be considered proficient at playing their instruments...

Lack of technical ability isn't necessarily a defect. Was Moe Tucker a technically proficient drummer? I think not. Was she right for what the Velvet Underground were doing? Yes. Same goes for Bobby Gillespie when he was the Jesus & Mary Chain's drummer.

I always listened to heavy metal throughout my youth, and I always pledged to not become an adult who scoffed at loud and raucous music played by the younger generation. But here I am, wanting kids to turn down the music not because it's too loud or I'm too old, but because it's wimpy and annoying! Props to you guys who are ensuring that when your munchkins say, "I Wanna Rock!" that they're not turning on stuff that's fit for Muzak.

My 4 week old just bought tickets to the Milwaukee Metal Fest. Now that's hardcore.

Perhaps, but when our 3 year-old was in the womb she used to fax out requests for Bolt Thrower and Obituary.

hah! My ten year old was conceived to the strains of Cannibal Corpse.

Oh yeah?? Well my 18 year-old was conceived to the strains of ...... I can't remember, it was too long ago.

ummmm... my dad used to listen to Stryper. That's pretty hardcore.

peace.

My 4 week old called me a poser for listening to Cradle of Filth, then he kicked me in the groin, popped a beer, and started singing along to the fist Bathory album (on vinyl). Now that's hardcore.

feh, its pointless to make any statments againts the current music industry untill andrew w.k. is dead. Seriously, we should all focus our hatred in the music industry at andrew wk, after he is dead, then we can go back to fixing the crappy music industry. As they say, go for the queen bee first.

I agree that most popular bands of today are not particularly musical, only barely innovative of proven forms (example: A-B-A-B-C-bridge-A. Punk did elevate this to satire at first, but then even that became simply established form).
However, go to this link for some encouraging thoughts: http://slate.msn.com/?id=2069732
Maybe part of our problem is not teaching kids to look under the media surface. So much crap is repeated ad nauseum through convenient channels that maybe they've begun to adapt to it.
Or maybe it's the fact that we DON'T get into their music that makes it more attractive. It has been discussed in statistics that over the last several generations, many different cultural traits have swung like a pendulum. One generation attends church; their children don't once they're grown, but the children they raise grow up to return to church in large numbers. It becomes almost a way to define yourself as unique from what you're used to, and it seems to happen subconsciously.
Anyway, random thoughts are my specialty, but to return to my first statement, I have thought of a band that has become pretty popular and is totally comprised of very talented musicians: TOOL. I listen to Lateralus in awe, after nearly a year of hearing it on average more than once a day. Even earlier albums show much consideration for musicality and craftsmanship.
(And they were friends of Bill Hicks, too!)

champ. you ever sat and listened to that ramones album of yours. Every bit as pure pop crap as any boy band too day. The ramones are nothing but 4 ugly guys how can't play instruments. They sound like with down syndrome trying to sound like a bad beatles cover band.

I worte an essay for a college English class on a similar subject just a few weeks ago. You know what? I totally agree with everything that this article has to say.

The Essay I Wrote

You guys are so full of yourselves. Dont you realise that every generation thought their music was better than the next.
Music changed, and the labels used to define music such as pop punk and metal werent dropped. Sure it doesnt sound THE SAME as it did, but that doesnt mean its any worse.
Forget about labels of musicality and youll all be better off. Besides its all opinionated anyway, If you dont think it sounds like punk than dont call it that. But dont try and pingeon hole a band into a genre just becasue you dont want them fouling up your favorite one. drop the steriotypes and concentrate on whats important. The music.

My 4 1/2 week old auditioned for the bass slot in Hatebreed, got the gig, then turned them down because they're too poppy. He then punched them in the groin, stole their wallets, and started his own death/grind/hatecore group with ex-members of Agorophobic Nosebleed, Nunslaughter, and Mortician. Now that's hardcore.

Ugly American wins.

It's not a "Punk Rock Show" unless there is a fight between girls with mohawks dyed green and one of them nearly loses her nose and ear at the same time by having the chain that is connected to them both yanked from her head. I saw that at the Exploited once in Denver. Now that is hardcore.

And I couldn't agree more with your first example of vintage punk Michele...The Misfits were truly a gift to our youth.

Other favs of mine: DRI, Minor Threat, 7 Seconds, Corrosion of Conformity, Exciter, The Accused, Suicidal Tendencies, Helmet, Ministry, Skinny Puppy, The Cramps, Circle Jerks, Nirvana and yes even the Beastie Boys who started as a punk band, I believe only to be told they didn't have the skills (ha).

Now that your kids are familiar with the gentle art of stage diving...you should teach them about how to deal with the skinheads that stand unmoveable in the middle of the pit. You haven't been to a punk gig until a skin head has worked you over for bumping into him (or her) in a mosh pit or for pulling on their suspenders so that they snap against their bare back. Good times. Good times.

Oh and by the way you know your 4 week old is hardcore when you see that an order for a Manson Youth album has arrived to their attention. What will it be today, I wonder, Mr. Rogers or Manson Youth Genocide? Either beats the heck out of Barney.

We're not ALL soft. I'm 18 and grew up on the soft stuff. Somewhere in there something happened (I'll call it puberty) and for the past 5 years I've listened to pretty much all the bands you've been talking about lately.

You can rest assured that if I ever have children, they'll be tough as nails. If it kills me.

I'm 18 and rock harder then most everyone I know. Avril is a waste of time...she wouldn't be bad, but people think she is punk and I hate that (*spits in someones face*), loud in your face...that's what everyone needs.

For a small minority, this is not the case. I listen to Death Metal/Black Metal/Gothic Metal and Cannibal corpse,Avulsed,Dark Tranquility/Emperor,Dark Funeral,Veneficum/Tristania,sirenia,The sins of Thy Beloved are much heavier than motown, ie the tops or choir music or deep purple. But, I realize that I am a small minority. Oh well metal, real metal on the radio is truely dead.

Well have my own version of this story every year. I am a highschool history teacher. And my students think that Lamebiskit is metal?? Well, I soon change their minds when I let them hear the second album of soilwork, the latest Arch Enemy, Cradle Of Filth, Dimmu Borgir and Nevermore!! 99% of the time their taste changes within a few month's. When were at the end of the school year I have a few metal freak among my students!!

Hell yeah hawk. I like to hear of an older heavy-listener. Rock on

I've been going around saying that rock is dead or dying for the last 3 years. I'll be 33 in one month. I grew up in rock/metal fantasyland and have been playing guitar in bands since I was 17. I kept making these crazy claims about rock's demise until about 4 months ago. I saw some very young girl in her small car blasting some hip hop. I really don't get hip hop. This girl, however, did. She was doing all the moves and I could hear her sing/chanting/yelling as loud as she could right along to the music. Now how often do you see someone over 30 doing that? Personally it's been years since I remember slamming my fist or banging my head along to my deafening stereo. All the above posts and articles DO have merit, but maybe we should just let the youth of today decide what "rocks" and what doesn't. We had our time, and our baby boomer parents had theirs. Such is the circle of life. I've stopped judging and making assumptions. Can we admit we're getting old and aren't to be trusted? I think I have.